Lizards have been sharing thoughts and opinions. We suggest you check the discord and governance channel or ask opinions if wanting to learn more. For purposes of remaining unbiased, only relevant facts will be included and possible choices brought up by the community. We ask each lizard to speak up and feel comfortable to engage in a cold-blooded discussion in governance!
Facts:
-Genesis currently has no Utility.
-V2 is expecting Utility in the form of Seed Investments based on their Mint raise and OS fees.
-Genesis OS Volume = 127E with 67 Owners and a floor of 6E, 4 to 25E.
-V2 OS Volume = 3400E with 1500 Owners and a floor of 2.9E, 316 to 25E.
-Genesis holders at time of mint had the ability to receive 2 free V2s and 3 available at a .06E Mint.
-Further Genesis utility was suggested by the team without any indication of what it would be.
These are the popular choices that will go to a vote, again, please brainstorm and add any ideas. It’s ordered with ease of integration in mind;
Do nothing
Revisit after Investments established. V3 airdrop, Lizcoin, Tournament Entries?
Integrate Genesis as a V2, increasing the supply to 5150. Genesis OS fees would go into the V2 vault.
Integrate Genesis as a V2 multiplier, increasing the theoretical supply an unknown amount.
Left over allocation that was not filled by V2 could be used by the Genesis DAO.
Integrate Aelin infrastructure where any left over allocation not filled by V2 could be satisfied by Genesis holders that elect to invest, at a reasonable ratio that closely mirrors V2.
.01% of the 15% team fund goes to the Genesis lizards.
Manage Exchange of a Genesis for a V2. Genesis holders elect to trade their Genesis for a V2, if a V2 agrees, trade complete. If none are available, treasury buys a couple floor V2s and offers the trade.
Submitted by: lizident.eth#8888
Timeline: TBD (No concerns until council is created)
Cost: Depends on the choice but most likely inexpensive, would need to look to the team to check this though.
KPI: We can vote a solution in and work towards investments/building
Options 4 and 5 are still entirely entirely dependent on if the project requesting funds wants 100 lizards to invest into their own seed round. There are a bunch of technicalities for them to consider, so they may not want the burden of creating a separate seed pool only for ~50 people.
1 option could be a trade in period, where a Gen will sell their lizard to the DAO and get enough back to buy a V2 near the floor.
This will give each Gen the opportunity to decide if they want utility or just keep the Flex.
The DAO then has the option to lock up the Gen Liz as capital or resell on the market.
At some deadline, the DAO will stop receiving applications to trade and no further discussion of utility will be made in the future. The Gen becomes a Flex item with the IP owned by the DAO.
I do understand that our vault doesn’t have enough to buy all Gen Lizards. But that can be planned out later.
I should add that the Gen’s true value atm is what people are willing to pay for it, not exactly it’s floor. The most recent transactions for Gen have been around 3-4 eth on average.
These are my personal thoughts on why Genesis should receive no utility and I’ll be voting as such:
Genesis are not victims and hold strong value even at current stance with no utility. I make a point by asking if anyone would want to trade and give me a normal Genesis for one of my normal V2s, any takers? Most likely not and the fact it’s even realistic says everything.
Genesis has added nothing to the investment vault and it’s unlikely that it will as it’ll remain illiquid. You can only buy 4 to a 25E floor. There are only 67 holders and that number hardly changes.
Genesis at mint was awarded 10% of the V2 supply with 2 free mints and 3 available at .06E. As stated by SpicySauce, most likely it was closer to 16% as they had 3 more available WLs due to being early to discord. Those that bought prior were already rewarded and those that bought after did so without doing any research or speculating that they might dilute the V2 collection as utility was never announced.
Any solution that involves dilution should never be considered. Crypto was founded on that principal and is one of it’s biggest features. I don’t think anyone would take it serious if someone was trying to get BTC or ILV to dilute more and give it to a select OG group.
I’m not categorizing, just stating real examples I’ve encountered; some Genesis have expressed they’re against the integration and some V2s that agree do so because they see the less of two evils. We should allow no evil in period, we should only be aiming to be the best. Feelings aside, dilution is a bad look.
Can you imagine if BAYC just announced they were effectively increasing the BAYC supply to 10,200 people would go crazy.
What did BAYC and other successful projects do? They rewarded holders by not diluting them but actually enriching them by allowing them to claim multiple other related collections.
Anyone referencing other examples, please ensure that Genesis is the smaller OS Volume collection because that’s unlikely. We have a different structure here where V2 brought in significantly more to the vault.
Solutions down the road can still benefit Genesis. If there was a V3 and new mints available, Genesis could get the airdrop. Imagine V2 floor is 10E, we’ve had successful investments, and more people want to join but can’t afford it. We can make a 10,000 V3 collection. Each Genesis and V2 is awarded a V3 for free and the remaining 4,850 can be mints, maybe we can have the same game/wl events. This isn’t diluting either because the V3 can have it’s own council and it’s own vault. This would not be diluting V2 while rewarding Genesis.
Lizcoin, I’m a fan of this much later, maybe after V3 we can airdrop coins to Genesis as well.
I support Genesis, I want one. No dilution. This isn’t really a reason but shows a resemblance of an oxymoron. We are saying, Genesis was shafted because they have no utility and it was suggested that they might have some utility. No where in there was there an indication of dilution of a separate collection. We are also saying, since Genesis was shafted with an unknown utility, let’s shaft a known important factor in V2, to me, maybe even one of the most important. Sure they were expecting to be buying into a 5050 collection and would reasonably not consider being diluting but hey, Genesis is OG. We can add Genesis utility without diluting V2, especially out of separate vaults.
Of course anyone is free to do as they please but I ask that if someone responds/pings me, if they could kindly respond in the same format. We can express our own thoughts without discounting others and then it’ll be easy to gather all the points. I find some pick and choose but it takes away from the conversation. You don’t need to express why you disagree with me in one sentence as a response that can be better represented as your own points for your own perspective.
I think about the question in that there’s 3 reasonable approaches we could take:
Genesis are a separate, no longer actively developed project and at this point more of a historical artifact. They have historical significance as the starting point for EthLizards but they are distinct from V2 and are not part of the DAO. Because the team is now focused on V2 there will be limited to no ongoing development or concrete utility for genesis. Their value comes from their coolness/historical significance and should be viewed primarily as a PFP flex.
Unification. Genesis are a separate collection but fully a part of EthLizards and should be included in the DAO. All royalties or any future revenues generated by genesis will go towards the DAO and genesis holders will be entitled to 1 vote/rev share like all other lizard holders. The existing 1 lizard = 1 lizard principle carries over and applies to genesis as well.
Keep things ambiguous/middle ground. Genesis are a separate collection, and sort of a separate project although still part of the larger EthLizards ecosystem and will possibly have utility although that utility might be vague or at least contingent on how V2 develops. The priority of the team will mostly be on V2 but if there are opportunities, for example if there’s leftover allocation for a seed investment after V2 has had it’s chance to invest this might be offered to genesis (although exactly where these funds will come from isn’t clear since genesis at least right now does’t have a DAO or a fund of its own). Other ad-hoc utility might be provided to genesis such as private gaming tournaments, access to private betas, etc, although these are also unclear at this point.
I personally am in favor of unification as to me this seems the cleanest solution. It brings in genesis in a way that solves the question both of immediate and of any future utility. All royalties and revenues all go the the same DAO and the principle of 1 lizard = 1 lizard is upheld, there’s no special multiplier or bonus for genesis. We simply decide they are EthLizards as well and then the market can decide what value their historical significance has, the same way it can decide the value of the rarity or aesthetic value of the Eth King Crown trait.
To lizident’s point about dilution I’d say I don’t agree that dilution in principle is a cardinal sin in crypto, it is only if a core promise is violated about the hardcap of a project. I would agree it would be unacceptable and hugely controversial if BTC core devs tried to raise the BTC cap above 21M or even if BAYC devs tried to mint new BAYC NFTs that they claimed were part of the same collection. However our situation here is different in that the status of genesis has never been clear.
The DAO vote itself was just a few weeks ago, at the time V2 was minted none of these questions even existed. The question being asked here isn’t are we going to violate an already established precedent, it’s what should our originating structure be. I see us being in the formative stage where we’re laying out the structure of the project and I think these sorts of questions are still on the table, maybe in a way they wouldn’t be even a few months from now. This is also why I’ve argued we should think long term here and why I personally am in favor of unification, at the very least because it provides a clear long term structure going forward.
Ethlizards v2 is a separate collection created by the current Ethlizards team. V2 Ethlizards was not initially planned at the time of Genesis creation and was later envisioned to become a larger, more functional DAO project. Initially the LizardDAO’s focus was to host gaming tournaments, but through successful governance proposals has transitioned into a full on Game-Fi Investment DAO. The V2 Ethlizards 5050 tokens are contractually structured to have permissions within the DAO (this includes membership in the DAO by owning said Ethlizard NFT token, voting, as well as future staking functionality and future DAO benefits). 7.5% Royalty goes to the vault and team. Currently has vault treasury near 300ETH.
Ethlizards V1 Genesis was created as a meme NFT collection to be distributed among friends and OG degens of the Illuvium community by 0xDrs. It was a free mint given out and a discord was formed for these degens to connect and share alpha. Currently Genesis Ethlizards collection has 0% royalty, $0 revenue and 0 in treasury. Only recently has the Ethlizards team acquired rights to this collection from 0xDrs.
Ethlizard Genesis V1 holder Perks:
• Pre-V2 mint, holders received 2 free mints of Ethlizards V2 and 3 WL spots for the mint [additionally there were 3 extra WL spots available for early members to discord for a possible total of 8 v2s]
• Have access to closed Bathhouse channel on discord
• Collector/Flex value (speculative)
Note: The DAO is restricted ONLY to V2 Ethlizard NFT holders, with the token contractually being granted permissions to participate in the DAO. Ethlizard Genesis V1 is NOT included in the DAO and never has been up to this point; contractually, membership, voting, staking or otherwise. There is no “automatic” inclusion possible, since from the beginning the DAO was developed for V2 holders only. For Gen v1 to be included, a DAO proposal would need to be drafted and voted on according to the functional governance process of the DAO.
Solutions down the road can still benefit Genesis. If there was a V3 and new mints available, Genesis could get the airdrop. Imagine V2 floor is 10E, we’ve had successful investments, and more people want to join but can’t afford it. We can make a 10,000 V3 collection. Each Genesis and V2 is awarded a V3 for free and the remaining 4,850 can be mints, maybe we can have the same game/wl events. This isn’t diluting either because the V3 can have it’s own council and it’s own vault. This would not be diluting V2 while rewarding Genesis.
I’m not swayed in either direction on the outcome of this proposal, but saying that introducing a V3 is less dilutive than giving them the ability to stake is just not correct. A third collection will still dilute the other two, as in your example, if 10 eth floor becomes unobtainable for some, they would just go for the cheaper V3 collection. The same can be seen for BAYC and all the airdrops holders received, MAYC received ~1/3 $APE tokens than what BAYC holders received. Also look at Illuvium Promo/Cosplay NFTs. They are increasingly becoming less desirable due to the abundance of them.
Bare in mind, I’m all for genesis getting future airdrops/prizes that do not directly affect the V2 collection, but creating a V3 collection definitely will dilute the V2 collection, and I’d argue that it would dilute it much more than allowing V1 to be staked at 1:1 ratio to V2.
One of the largest reasons of integrating the community seems faulty as there are only 17 wallets that aren’t exposed to V2 already.
I’m not saying this logic is perfect either, just important to note, our last proposal which was objectively more important only had a turnout of 29% of voters. Genesis could make up 17% of the vote, overlapped with the last turnout, that’s 59%. This stat isn’t critical to me as I already disagreed before this but it’s important to note. It seems odd to allow a vote that could exclusively reward a select few while they also could own a large part of the vote.
I want a genesis, still wanting to trade a V2 for a Genesis if anyone is down. We can reward Genesis with Lizcoin or V3, not sure why we aren’t just rallying around that or thinking of new utility. Taking from a separate collections vault and adding to their numbers just seems off. The vault for Genesis can be exclusive to Genesis as well, I don’t think it makes sense for the Genesis OS fees go to the V2 vault
It is correct. If V3 had a mint and they sell 4850 lizards or raise 485E if the mint is .10 and Genesis and V2 were already rewarded their 1 per, that is not dilution. That 485E would be used as its own vault for V3.
It can be said it would discourage V3 minters but it’s a fair trade-off to allow them to get in. That’s assuming there are no fractionalization services in place either, I’ve seen demos, hopefully soon enough.
This is dilution because 5050 raised 300E. 100 raised 0. Now we are saying, let’s distribute a separate raise/collection of the 300E to the 100 that raised nothing. Reasoning, because? The best one I’ve heard was integrating a part of the community but there are only 17 wallets that don’t have an overlap.
adding the OG lizards with a multiplier makes the most sense in my opinion.
when the v2 collection launched the project had a completely different direction and it really didn’t matter if they were integrated right away. it was always clear that the genesis collection had its rightful place in the project with a higher value than the v2 lizards by receiving additional perks. as far as i am aware one of the main reasons why they were not integrated right away was because it was unclear how to make the integration happen from a technical perspective (e.g. wrapping the collection) because they are currently in the OS shared storefront format.
leaving the OG collection behind would be comparable to creating baby lizards and leaving the v2 collection behind.
comparing the volume of v1 and v2 is a flawed metric as most OGs don’t want to sell their lizard comparable to the legendary lizards in the v2 collection. most of the profits will be made from seed investments anyway.
the two free mints were a nice bonus, but the genesis collection was trading at around 3E when v2 minted which would be equal to 50 v2 lizards. everyone had the chance to pick up several v2 lizards slightly above or even below mint price for more than a month.
all that being said i will stay around no matter the outcome, but it will leave a bad taste if we treat the OGs that have been around for more than half a year like second class citizens that are fighting for scraps.
Appreciate everyone’s thoughts, I’m really trying to understand the viewpoint of V2 leaving Genesis behind? There are only 17 wallets that have a Genesis and not a V2?
It doesn’t look like I can edit the original post more than 4 times, not sure if that can be raised. The community is having good conversations and more options came about.
Do nothing
Revisit after Investments established. V3 airdrop, Lizcoin, Tournament Entries?
Integrate Genesis as a V2, increasing the supply to 5150. Genesis OS fees would go into the V2 vault.
Integrate Genesis as a V2 multiplier, increasing the theoretical supply an unknown amount.
Left over allocation that was not filled by V2 could be used by the Genesis DAO.
Integrate Aelin infrastructure where any left over allocation not filled by V2 could be satisfied by Genesis holders that elect to invest, at a reasonable ratio that closely mirrors V2.
.01% of the 15% team fund goes to the Genesis lizards.
Manage Exchange of a Genesis for a V2. Genesis holders elect to trade their Genesis for a V2, if a V2 agrees, trade complete. If none are available, treasury buys a couple floor V2s and offers the trade.
Setup a community Genesis for V2 Exchange. If there are no outstanding trades, what’s really the concern? Genesis trade V2 - Google Sheets
Burn a Genesis and a V2 to receive a placeholder V2 that can be later customized. (The biggest con is V2 rares are diluted but that was already going to be the case with 100 rares entering)
it’s not so much leaving individual wallets/members behind as excluding an important part of the projects history from the GameFi investment DAO (that was only voted in three weeks ago).
So it’s the overall brand aspect? I don’t fully understand this either because they’re not excluded at all. They can have merch / tournaments / Lizcoin (suggested) / V3 (suggested) and potentially invest in Seed deals as well, they would just have their own vault to use instead of using a separate collections vault as their investment.
we are one community so implementing two seperate pools would be the last thing i would implement. that just causes division and adds unnecessary complexity. then we’d have to ask questions like who gets the better deals and when v3 comes around the team would have to manage three seperate vaults already.
all of the other perks above can still be implemented in the future but again they do concern the whole project and not just one specific version.
the branding aspect is actually pretty close as it would show that we care about the whole community. apart from that higher sales of rare parts of the collection always create attention which gets new people interested and raises the floor price as well. including the OG lizards creates a new option for that next to the founders and legendary edition.
